Mathew Focht interviews Will Dean, CEO, and Co-Founder of Electric Gamebox, about his journey from Tough Mudder to EGB. They also discuss the pandemic and the changing nature of the entertainment industry.
Mathew Focht
It’s great to have you on; we’ve been fortunate to work together now; it’s going on six months which has been crazy. And we’ve yet to connect in person.
Will Dean
I know, it’s one of the weird things about zoom. We did a fundraiser, I think I told you, through the pandemic, and it was all on video. And I’m six-three, and I recently met the investors, and of course, they don’t know how tall I am.
Mathew Focht
Yeah. Well, this has probably made life a lot more efficient in a way.
Will Dean
In some ways, more efficient. You can have more meetings. I don’t know whether the quality of the meetings is quite as good as it used to be. And then there’s also the danger that more people will take the meeting that wouldn’t have taken it before. So you have to sort of weigh that against.
Mathew Focht
That’s a good point. So let’s start off. How would you describe Electric Gamebox today?
Will Dean
Yeah, so I think there are two ways to talk about it. And the first one is to tell you physically what it is. And then I think, more importantly, is tell people what it does. It’s an interactive smart room, 12 feet by 12 feet, projection mapping on all four walls, motion tracking system in there, touch sensors on the walls and surround sound. And you step into that room, and you have a 30 to 60-minute group adventure for two to six people. We have a few locations in the UK, and we have one open in the US at the moment in Dallas, Texas. So that’s the kind of physically what it is. But I think the better way to describe it is to explain to you what it does, and what it really is, is that theme park in a box. And you know, you can take this experience, you can put it into a shopping mall, you can put it into an FEC or a movie theater, and you have this fully immersive hour-long group experience. And the fun of it comes from the fact that the whole team is working together to play the game. It’s all about teamwork. And it’s all about doing stuff together. Which my last business, Tough Mudder, was all about as well. So actually, there’s a lot of parallels between the two. And you know, we have games designed for younger kids, we have educational content, puzzle-based games, action-based games, where you’re running about. We have something for everyone.
Mathew Focht
Amazing. So it’s interesting how the entertainment in a box gives you so much versatility and flexibility. In the future, as technology changes, there’s pretty much a white landscape to program wherever the industry wants, and the market wants. How much flexibility is that?
Will Dean
That’s right. And you know, I often say to people, okay, here’s the customer for this, and you say well that’s a bit like saying here’s the customer for a movie theater. It depends on the movie. So we see during the week a lot of corporate team bonding, and we get our date nights. Then during the weekends, during the day, and on school holidays, we get a lot of kids, particularly a lot of teenage kids. Parents say it’s tough to find something to do with a 13-year-old, It’s an age where you kind of you think you’re old enough to be doing your own thing, but you’re not yet actually old enough to do your own thing. And so we get a lot of families and then on the weekends and evenings, we get a lot of young urban professionals, we get birthday parties, bachelorette parties, and all that kind of stuff. And then, during the day, we get school trips coming as well. So it really is a big, big mix. And the idea was to build something where the content could be used in all these different ways. So as I said, we have puzzle games, we have chooser and adventure games, we have shorter format action games that lend themselves to the team versus team dynamics. It’s fun to come up with new content and new challenges.
Mathew Focht
Yeah, so once you get the units deployed, it’s becomes a content game, right? How do you see the market maturing once the boxes and the real estate is there?
Will Dean
That’s right, so we think of ourselves as doing three things at once as a business. We’re opening our own stores, which is great. In the next three months, we are opening in Houston, Chicago, LA, DC, Salt Lake City, and Denver. So lots of good stuff is happening there. And owner-operator stores are definitely a big part of our future.
But we also have a franchise concession business where we’re selling someone a piece of hardware effectively and saying, look, you can put this into a movie theater. Our first US franchise concession opens in San Antonio, Texas, next month. And there we are, a manufacturer of hardware, and somebody else is operating that unit.
Then the third thing we’re doing is we’re a content studio. And increasingly, we’re working not just to make our own games; we’re working with other people’s IP, as well. So we’re about to announce a major partnership with an animation studio and also with a big gaming studio. And then this kind of theme park in a box point comes out because it’s all about becoming an activation partner for other great brands and helping build customer love and customer experience and engagement in a new way. And it’s great that Disney has Disneyland and Disney World. But there’s a whole bunch of other interesting, exciting content out there that we could work with and kind of use this theme park in a box. And central to everything we’re doing is about giving someone an experience that allows them to tell a great story.
Mathew Focht
That will be powerful once you have the real estate out there. And then you just find any of the content of those markets. I mean, just like we see the independent films and some of the blockbuster movies that do better and other, you know, genres and segments. So it’s, it’s fascinating to think about that long term. So let’s talk about how Tough Mudder is and more about your background. Obviously, you have a pretty terrific background. How did you get into this?
Will Dean
Yeah, so I started my career as a counterterrorism officer; I spent five years doing that. So I was mostly in the Middle East and South Asia. And I did that straight out of finishing University or college, as you guys would call it in the USA. And I did that for five years, which is great. I loved that experience, it was actually really entrepreneurial. And it was after 9/11. I had lots of new challenges to deal with, big challenges, of course. But you know, great people, smart people who were willing to try new things and take a risk. And I think from that, I came to realize I may not be in business, but I’m an entrepreneur. And so I moved to the States, I did my MBA in the United States, at the Harvard Business School, which I’m not sure if it was worth two years of my life; it was quite an expensive thing to do. But for the rest of my life, I get to say I got into Harvard now. So when I say stupid things, people will give you the benefit of the doubt. And so I did that. And then the Tough Mudder, the big central idea was that most people that race aren’t really racing, they’re doing it for themselves. And Tough Mudder was a challenge that was all about teamwork, camaraderie, and getting people to come back and change the experience and do new things. And that was a great run. And I love that. But it was time for a new challenge. And three or four years ago, what I observed was that more and more people were pitching me with angel investment ideas or experiential concepts. And my view, having looked at a few things, there were a bunch of things out there that were one and done. Where you just couldn’t see people coming back to it a second time. There were things out there that you could see working in New York and LA and maybe in London, but it is hard to see how you build a big business there. And then I saw things where I was like, I just don’t see how you were protected with imagery and copycats tomorrow, escape rooms were going to go. And, and I liked the idea of building something where ultimately this could be a content play. You don’t go back to the movie theater to see the same movie; at least most of us don’t, right, but we do go back to something new. And so I became very focused on that. And with my background of group-based experiences and doing things together, I wondered if we could create this interactive room. That was the kind of central idea – can we create this interactive room. And so we built this super simple prototype up in a warehouse in North London, and London’s a huge sprawling city, and it sprawls. So when I say, like, North London, we were like 20 miles from Central. European VCs don’t normally have to go that far north. We built this prototype, and we had a really simple game. We basically had [Ping] Pong, there were just two paddles. Where you were on the floor, mapped on the screen where the paddles were. So you were running up and down, and the paddles were doing that. And it was super simple. But it was fun. And so we did that. And then we launched in the UK in 2019. The First store opened very well, with great reviews really busy. And then, luckily, we raised some money just in time. We didn’t know it at the time, but of course, then along came the pandemic. Then we spent the last 18 months, we’ve done this big deal with Brookfield partners, and they’ve been great to work with, I think, very visionary guys that see the future, their industry is changing, and they’re going to need new footfall drivers to come in. And we enroll to play their assembly in the UK. And we’ve opened in some of the big malls that we have over here. So we now have three permanent sites in the UK, plus a franchise concession and FEC over here, and then we have Dallas. It’s worth noting, I’m not sure I would do this again, we opened the Dallas site completely remotely. We built our tech in London, and we put it on a boat, and it arrived in the States. And literally, as you and I are speaking right now, we trained the team remotely. And we have a group of local AV installers put it all together, and people would say to us a great choice, we’ll amazing site really well done there. And I would say I’ll take your word for it. I mean, like I literally got a FaceTime from it. That’s it. So yeah, so that’s my background, I’ve always enjoyed building businesses that are about bringing people together. And I don’t pretend that we’re curing cancer, it’s an electric game box. But I do think we’re making a meaningful difference in the world. And one of the things I’m very proud of, and I really am very proud of this, is our power users, who we didn’t see coming. Our parents who have children that are on the autistic spectrum. And we’ve had mothers come in and become quite teary and say, I can’t tell you what a difference this product made to our family. You know this is something we all look forward to. It’s been years since I’ve been able to do something with my children that we all enjoy. And it’s nice to know you’re doing that. It’s humbling. And, yeah, it’s nice to be able to, you know, do good and do well.
Mathew Focht
That is wonderful. It’s tough to find games today that the whole family can interact, play, and have fun together. It’s not too simple or too challenging, and everybody can get engaged and feel like they’re participating is something together. It’s wonderful. Thank you. Very cool.
Will Dean
It’s worth us doing; I’m saying that we sell 70% of our tickets to women. And people assume gaming, it must be male, but not at all. A lot of family groups and to stereotype, it is the mother that’s organizing it. And the games are about collaboration; you are social and work together. You know, it’s not, in general, our games are not violent games where you’re like blowing the head of an alien or something.
Mathew Focht
Being as well educated as you are, and with your experience with Tough Mudder, I’m sure you’ve had some tremendous words of advice.
Will Dean
Yes, some scars on my back as well.
Mathew Focht
Yes, scars, I’m sure. And what’s carried with you? What’s in the DNA today, and for the business world view, what you live by that can be a help to others?
Will Dean
Look, it’s a great question. I’m often asked, what do you need to be a successful entrepreneur? And the truth is, there are all kinds of effective leadership styles. There are lots of people whose approach to these kinds of questions would be very different from my own. And I’m not right, and they’re not wrong. But I think there’s something I’ve observed that broadly seems to be true with people, I don’t just mean entrepreneurs, but business leaders in general, is you have to have this unfailing belief in the long term that it’s all going to work out. You have to be fundamentally an optimist and excited by the future. But that has to be tempered at the same time, with a near paranoia set up here. Andy Grove was the CEO of Intel, the chip manufacturer, and his book was called Only the Paranoid Survive; and maybe it’s not the cheeriest title for a business book, but he has a point, right. My life as a business leader is more than just survival, you’re building something, and it’s fun, and it’s enjoyable, and it’s creative. And I think, for me, you’ve got to have this unfailing belief that what you’re doing is important. And I think one of the things I observed is there are people out there that are in it just to try and make a bunch of money. And I don’t really judge that, but there’s more to life than making money. But if that’s your thing, then fine. But in my experience, the people that enjoy it, and can sustain the effort over the long term like making things, they like growing things, they like believing that what they’re doing is having an impact. I think that’s where the optimism part really comes in. So yeah, be a paranoid optimist. As far as my advice to people,
Mathew Focht
Yeah, I can see the paranoia. I mean, there’s always something around the corner to think about. I can see running on that as fuel.
Will Dean
You have to have a bit of fear, you do, things go wrong. And when they do, rarely are they fatal, but they’re hardly ever fun to deal with. To put up with that, it sometimes can feel like you’re just getting punched in the face at times. You have to believe it’s all worth it. I think.
Mathew Focht
Yeah. So what are some of the biggest challenges you’ve been faced? Can you maybe give an example from now, or it could go back to your Tough mudder days. Opening in the middle of COVID is a heck of a challenge, and raising money for a social entertainment concept in the middle of a pandemic. You’ve already accomplished some amazing things.
Will Dean
Everyday business brings challenges. And hopefully, you learn from those, and you grow. One of the things I always find hard when you’re the leader of the business is, you inevitably will deal with lots of people that are thinking about one part of the equation. And they’re not thinking about the bigger picture. And the only good news is, they often give the game away, they often start statements like – Well, I’m just worried about x. And so that’s nice, I have to worry about a bunch of stuff on top of x. My lawyers do this, let me tell you how you can get your risk in this part of the business down to zero, like okay, but my real risk is over here. And the more time I spend on this, the less time I have for the bigger things. So I think that’s also part of the fun, right? To make it all work, you’ve got to try and get everyone pulling basically in the same direction. And I think I believe quite strongly that we need to move fast and get to the place where we’ve got scale here. And that’s when the conversations with Disney or Universal or Activision or Blizzard really become interesting. Because we haven’t got five or ten sites worldwide, we’ve got 100 sites, and we’re a meaningful partner.
Mathew Focht
Yeah
Will Dean
I think getting that balance right between moving at crazy, breakneck speed and understanding what it means to, on the one hand, be efficient, on the other hand, being inefficient, because you can’t move really quickly and not also inevitably have a few things exploding on a daily basis as well. I think that’s been a challenge and, in some ways, similar. I mean, the pandemic was obviously a tough thing for us all to go through. And, obviously, we all wish it never happened. It brought a lot of very challenging things to the world, unfortunately. But in some ways, you have to look at these things as a blessing in disguise. Being given this time to be able to refine your thinking, to build out your library of content, to do more engineering on the back end, and the whole time when you don’t have the pressures of like day to day operations. So there were some pros that came out of it. In the UK where I’m sitting today, we were basically as a country placed under house arrest for a year. We were pretty much locked up the whole time you could go to the grocery store once a week. You could go and do outdoor exercise on your own once a day, and that was it. So it wasn’t much fun for a while, but we got through it, and I think what doesn’t break makes you stronger. I always tell people, whatever the challenges we’re dealing with, and it may be unique to us, but if you take a step back, anyone that ever tried to do anything has basically dealt with this problem before so most people will quit. So be grateful for the challenge because the challenge is your friend.
Mathew Focht
Well said. Any books that you love?
Will Dean
Through the pandemic, I really got into bike riding because you couldn’t get to the gym because they were all closed. So I really got into that. And I did a lot of audiobooks. I live in southwest London. I live in Wimbledon, we have the tennis park nearby us. So I read a bunch, I read Bob Iger’s book, The Ride of a Lifetime. It was really interesting. We do a book club with the management team, with the junior management team at Electric Gamebox. We call it a rookie bookie club. Like it’s for the junior managers and I kind of make them read a book every other month and we discuss it. So I enjoyed that. I read the Cult of We, which is the story of WeWork, which is just crazy. So any given day when they think I’m kind of pushing a bit hard and like being a bit of a maniac with them, I’d be like could be worse, I could be this guy. But yeah, they were both for different reasons.
Mathew Focht
I like that idea, give them perspective. Maybe we need to go back to that, get someone to give your team members a real perspective about how it could be. I like that.
Wimbledon’s amazing, that is a beautiful area. I can’t wait to get back there, I was there three years ago. So one last question I have for you. In the industry, do you see any major notable shifts coming?
Will Dean
I think what’s really interesting is, if you went back ten years ago, there were four very clear types of industry. But actually these days, it’s quite hard to tell them apart, in many ways. 10 years ago, there were entertainment or media companies, and they made content, and that’s what they did. And then you had gaming companies, and again, they made content, but they made a very different type of content. And you look at those two worlds, they are kind of colliding, like Netflix is trying to get into games. The gaming companies are trying to get into movies. And so that’s interesting. I think these things are starting to coalesce and what it means to be an entertainment company is changing. Then you look at the leisure space, and what leisure meant ten years ago, again, very different. And you see a lot of leisure experiential concepts again, trying to become entertainment companies. And I think that’s really interesting. If you look at the traditional movie theater, we’re all coming out of the pandemic saying we’ve got too many screens. It’s not that movie theaters are going away, but once, where you perhaps needed 12 screens now, you need eight. And so now the question is, how do you repurpose that space? And then the last thing you see, which is amazing is that property companies themselves are trying to get into leisure and by extension into entertainment. Our franchise concession here in London, it’s in a former Debenhams which was one of the big department stores. It’d be like Macy’s or something in the United States. And I think we all know in the age of Amazon, department stores don’t drive foot traffic like they used to; you know that better than anyone. But you see this crazy situation where you’ve got these four huge industries, leisure, property, media, and gaming, and they’re all kind of becoming entertainment, and it’s great for us because we’re kind of in the middle of all of that. But yeah, it’s hard to put labels on things in the way that we used to
Mathew Focht
What’s driving them? Is this consumer-driven? You’re competing with at-home experiences or what?
Will Dean
I think it’s a great question. Look, I think you know, if you watch like half the TED talks, they will tell you buying more stuff won’t make you happier. But experiences, things you do with your friends, that will make you happy. And the truth, there is more stuff to do at home. You can have a peloton. I have one behind me. The content you can consume at home now, because of Netflix, and all these other things are so much better than it was in the past. We’re having this meeting that we just couldn’t have done in the past. But the basic human condition is still social, right? Most of our brain is set up to deal with building relationships with other people and doing stuff. And that’s why when we’re born, we’re basically just a head in a tiny little body, right? Because most of our brain is designed for building relationships with other human beings. What we’ve been able to achieve, for better or for worse as a species is through the fact we all have to work together. And so people want to do stuff together, that hasn’t changed. And we live in an age where people are also more health-conscious. So there is a limit to how much we can physically eat and drink right and we’re all more aware of that. So I think people are looking for fun stuff that they can do together. Then add into that the trend of Amazon and how that’s changing retail. And you look at a company like Disney being first and foremost an animation business, but no, that’s truly not right. It’s a whole ecosystem of amusement parks and content, toys, cruise ships, the whole shebang. I think that’s a proven business model and we see ourselves as being part of the future as well, but I think fundamentally, people I people will always want to do stuff together. And this is why I don’t believe that we’ll be in a world where we’re all working from home all the time. Maybe we’ll work from home more, and maybe we’ll all spend Thursdays and Fridays working from home but the basic need to get together and have real human interactions is here to stay.
Mathew Focht
Yeah, no doubt. This has been an awesome interview, awesome comments. I love what you’re saying here. I just I feel so blessed that we’re able to work with you.
Will Dean
It’s mutual, you guys have been great, wonderful to work with, and I’m looking forward to meeting in person for the first time next week. Actually getting on a plane, and coming to the United States rather than just talking to people. Thank you for having me on to this was great. Really enjoyed it and I will speak soon.
